Recently, a gay Pride event was cancelled in Chiang Mai, Thailand following a confrontation with protesters. Earlier, a prominent Bangkok gay activist Natee Teerarojanapong campaigned against the parade. Many of the comments here on fridae.com in response to the recent news article featuring this issue have expressed disgust and surprise at Teerarojanapong's disavowal of a Pride march, especially regarding his reasoning, which I will delve into later.
In the meantime, here in Sydney we are in the midst of the Gay & Lesbian Mardi Gras Festival season, about a month-long season which opened this year on 15 February with the annual "Fair Day" at Victoria Park, and which will end on 7 March with the famous parade down Oxford Street. Every year, during the Mardi Gras season, there are art events, theatre, concerts, debates, public forums, and a film festival, all of which feature work by LGBT artists and thinkers locally and from around the world. The Gay and Lesbian Mardi Gras is self-consciously a cultural festival born from the political discontent of sexual repression.
According to the New Mardi Gras website, the first march in 1978 in Sydney was met with violent police arrests of marchers, and sparked a successive wave of protests against laws that required registration of political demonstrations. Because of the effectiveness of LGBT organising, those laws came tumbling down, paving the way for the Mardi Gras to morph from its more exclusively anti-authoritarian roots into the more integrated and inclusive spectacle of arts and exhibitionism that it is today.
Such is the history of the Pride festival known as the Mardi Gras here in Sydney. Growing up, it was a dream to be able to attend a Pride festival, stuck as I was within the political deadlock against free speech regarding sexual expression in Singapore. It was when I was 21 that I attended my first ever Pride parade in San Francisco, June 2006, on break from university. San Francisco currently features three marches during the annual Pride season which began in the early 1970s. Usually held on each of the two days before the famous Pride march along Market Street are the Trans March, which started in 2004 in support of transgender people, and Dyke March, which started in 1993 in support of queer-identified women.
I attended all three marches that period of June 2006 in San Francisco; Friday (Trans March), Saturday (Dyke March) and Sunday (Pride March). That weekend, I was shell-shocked out of 22 years of shame and repression, getting drunk on cheap wine on Friday, followed the next day by more cheap wine, dancing and passionately kissing and making out with a beautiful friend whom I had had a crush on, in the middle of a dance party that was held on the streets of the Castro district (the famous gay district that was the site of Harvey Milk's rise to political prominence, featured in Gus Van Sant's recent film, Milk). That weekend for me was an incredible catharsis of built up tension. To be surrounded literally by thousands of queer people of all backgrounds, Asian, black, white, Hispanic, inter-racial, international, and all ages, all of them beautiful, laughing, dancing, holding each other, kissing each other, and loving each other the way our souls had always demanded.
On Sunday, during the famous daytime Pride march along Market Street, my friend and I walked around the city holding hands. After the catharsis of drunken release the previous two nights, it was equally such a magical experience to be able to express public affection, out in the open, with the sun beating down its blessings on our skin. This was a time in which we were not anomalies, not oddities, but in fact, participants in a larger urban festival of sensual and sexual freedom of expression; a privilege that many heterosexuals take for granted on a daily basis. That weekend was the first time in my life I experienced an alignment between my sexual-emotional desires and their expression, galvanised by the freedom that the San Francisco Pride festival allowed for. That night, I experienced authenticity.
Pride festivals will only make sense if we still have the larger "shame festival" that is the rest of the year. If we cease to feel ashamed, we may also cease to cling to creating the conditions in which we feel a distinct pride over something so abstract and superfluous as our "sexual orientation" and "gender identities." However, those of us who are "anti-Pride" should not get too excited about that sentence, as it was certainly not intended as an indictment of Pride marches or festivals. Often, when LGBT people ourselves demean the legitimacy of Pride events, it is often only superficially from a space of contentment and calm, and is usually quite directly related, instead, to an underlying bias against and hatred toward those of us who continue to struggle enough with sexual shame that these events could continue to be relevant.
In Chiang Mai, gay activist Teerarojanapong's argument was that a highly publicised Pride festival in Chiang Mai would "encourage" young people to be kathoey (a Thai word that colloquially is used to refer to male-to-female transgender or cross-dressing individuals), and would demean the traditional life of supposed discretion and sexual conservatism in Chiang Mai. Acceptance, for Teerarojanapong, seems to be in lieu of including transgender individuals. Insofar as larger society and even our own communities continue to foster an attitude of intolerance and shaming toward our more basal, sexual, and flamboyant expressions and members of our human community, Pride events will continue to be appealing and relevant. After all, if an ethnic tradition were so easily threatened by the images of a few queer people prancing around, then it is as important to me to question the legitimacy of queer expression as it is to challenge the legitimacy of a tradition that does not account for its queer members. All across Asia, people have engaged exactly this struggle, with culturally-specific forms of Pride festivals popping up all across Asia in the last two decades, from Taipei to Tokyo, from Manila to Mumbai (Kolkata, Delhi and Bangalore), and across the Southeast Asian region, including Thailand's Bangkok, where Teerarojanapong himself had attended a Pride march along Silom Road one year.
If Teerarojanapong, or, for that matter, any other LGBT individual spends an inordinate amount of time challenging the legitimacy of Pride parades as an expression/reaction against discontentment and shame, then who are we really fighting for? And who do we end up fighting against? The uneasy answer is that we are spending too much time undermining ourselves. To me, this is truly the last vestige of shame we must truly aim toward dismantling. If we were truly successful in that, if we were secure in that, then there would be less fixation on whether or not Pride is an 'accurate' or 'inaccurate' portrayal of who we are, since the moment queer people ever become truly accepted and integrated into larger society, and our shame dissipates, Pride too will dissolve all on its own accord. No need for violent and hateful condemnation.
This ability to cease shame is not only an individual matter. The whole of society needs reformation, our cultural attitudes toward sex and gender must necessarily be undermined and reworked to incorporate queer expression. This is the sublime osmosis that the presence of Pride events can engender; they seep into straight/non-queer people's psyches, jarring them out of a nascent and complacent freedom, perhaps tentatively into a state of unease. But, and I know this from my interactions with many of my straight friends, Pride festivals can even free them up from their own repression.
At the moment, I am fully in support of people who choose to organise Pride parades and marches, festivals and showcases, with the caveat that this may need to integrate the struggle for pride in our own ethnic heritage that may indeed be legitimately threatened by global homogenisation of urban cultures.
Perhaps this means that I must still battle my own gay shame, and yet perhaps this also means that I am not ashamed to admit that this is a battle I still struggle with, a battle I know many of the rest of us also struggle with, that I invite you to join me in, and that we can help each other to overcome. In the meantime, the best I can do, especially given the privilege I have of being in a city in which a Pride festival is currently in season, is simply to cease the unending chatter in my head that debates the relative worth or unworthiness of an event, and to simply call out to passersby during the descent of a balmy and sticky evening ahead, "Come dance with me!"
Malaysia-born and Singapore-bred Shinen Wong is currently getting settled in Sydney, Australia after moving from the United States, having attended college in Hanover, New Hampshire, and working in San Francisco for a year after. In his fortnightly "Been Queer. Done That" column, Wong will explore gender, sexuality, and queer cultures based on personal anecdotes, sweeping generalisations and his incomprehensible libido.
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Reader's Comments
but when there are too many words
your articles start to lose the impact
l have taken part in gay pride events in several countries and am beginning to get concerned about how commercial it is becoming. l wonder sometimes how many of us realize when our desire for recognition is just a profit making for many who suddenly start putting up rainbow flags when all year long they never acknowledge us.
Plus, the way some of us behave at times isn't really respect-commanding.
Where do we draw the line here?
I am 100% for Gay Pride Parades. I'm 100% for including Transgender brothers and sisters in the parades. Dress up in fancy costumes, dress up in uniforms and simple stuff, put on a wig or feathers or leather, but show off your bodies in saunas or the gym or the bedroom or beach like everyone else.
Also, Fridae articles are important to me. Shinen is fearless in discussing increasingly complex issues. But surely better articles can deal with the complexities without making it a chore to read.
It is a shame we must not only fight the bigots in our communities but those of us who have aspiration for higher political power.
I love pride and can't wait for this years season to start.... pride is all about accpetance, street carnival, rave, having a laugh and often very political. The community has striven for decades to get these rights in each and every country... lets celebrate!
In terms of walking around semi nude at pride.. as long as your cock is not hanging out then that is ok... what is wrong in a western nation with your shirt off... your not near a Religious site its all ok. If you have got a hot body then why not! Even if your a bear : O
Pride never seems to be about or for ME - I'm not exactly waiting to be lifted into a giant throne and carried down city streets at the head of a parade, but... am I alone in feeling totally unconnected to Pride parades?
Here come the Muscle Marys... and the Bears... and the Dykes with whistles... and the Trannies... and the Daddies... and the Leather Guys... And the A, B, C... uh-huh... I'll just tick off all of my/society's preconceptions of who 'should' be in a Pride march... But... where am *I* supposed to go? What are all the non-fabulous people supposed to do; the guys/gals who aren't buff and beautiful, pumped and pretty? The people with old shoes and bad haircuts, worn coats and wrinkles, newspapers rather than party flyers? Where do I/we/they go? And what do we do when we get there?
Pride has Nothing to do with me; it just sems to celebrate a ringed-in, closely-defined version of what being gay 'is'. It's no surprise to say that the gay society discriminates against its own just as much as the heterosexual one. However, I don't need an all-inclusive-but-actually-rather-exclusive march or rally to celebrate, stand up for or define who or what I am, where being gay just happens to be a part of my overall nature. A face on the diamond, rather than the diamond itself. Or, in My case, Diamante... ;-)
There. NOW start with the withering comments/looks...
Except, perhaps, when "gay pride" is visiting town. I love the parties and clubbing, and the parade is fun. But this being Europe, there is the inevitable point when left-wing politicians enter the stage.
Having to listen to their dim-witted blather typically marks the annual high point on my personal "gay shame" meter.
And don't get me started on the assumption that 'straight acting' gays are somehow 'closetted'. Oh, really? Who says I/we/they need 'liberating'? Who says Pride is the cause to rally around, as important as it may be?
Next, perhaps we can have the "You're either with Us or with Them" line of seperatist thinking. One of Us, or one of Them. With us, or Against Us. Humph!
Pride is a matter of personal connection and empathy; if someone is unconnected, or doesn't engage with it - fine, just as it's totally straightforward and understandable if someone very much endorses it and feels part of it all. Either way, it's a purely personal matter and connection - or not, as the case may be...
I am very proud amongst my friends in normal days, but not why it comes to Pride Parades, I simply wish I can find a very good place to hide myself. To me, it is a very shameful decadent advertisement of flesh and the beautiful, not the true representation of what we want. Pride is an inaccurate and very shameful portrayal of who we are.
To me, the road to gaining "Pride" is to have a morally acceptable principle agreeable by majority.
Yes they were a necessary part of showing the world that sexual equality needs to be addressed, but now, especially in Sydney where I live, being gay is almost the norm. Yes there will always be people who disagree, or even feel the needs to commit violence against gay people. But in all parts of the world if you don't follow what they deem is normal then there is always a group of people who will persecute your beliefs.
The Sydney Gay Mardi Gras needs to be pulled into the 21st century. Put more effort into fighting for equal rights for something like marriage or basic human rights.
Does a parade of half naked men in women personifying their sexual preference is related to sex? Thats how a lot of my straight friends see this parade, something to ogle at and see naked bodies...nothing more.
I'm a gay man, all I want is to integrate into society, the fact that I find men sexually attractive is a minor point of my life...there is so much more to life than that.
I have to say that there are two distinctive views on the pride parade: those who love it and the others who hate it gut. While I don't really fall into the latter but I do think the so called pride parade is rather unnescessary. It sounds to me that we are not normal therefore we have to have this "pride" thingy to show people how normal we are - by dressing up to clearly show people how different we are or can be. How ironic this is.
Many people enjoy the parade and have a good laugh at the muscle men dressing in bikini, walking along the streets for hours. After the show, they rarely accept that gay people are part of the society, they are just a bunch of fun people, just like those staight people who get drunk once in a while.
I think Mardi Gras is necessary but are we conveying the message correctly ? I must say that the partying and drug use at the MG parties really is not the way to go.
for it is what i am and will always be
gay and proud
I was at a Hong Kong IDAHO march several years ago and was asked by a local middle-aged woman what the event was about. Upon hearing that it was a gay parade, her response was: "Oh, then why aren't they wearing 'odd' or 'strange' outfits. They look normal here." And her observation is true, 99% of marchers were in everyday clothes as if going to the movies or something. So in some places, gay parades can be about public education. But it's anyone's guess how Asian parades will evolve.
I'm not comfortable with it because it associates being gay with being well, indulgent & sinful. Because Mardi Gras was when you indulged in your last vices before Lent.
Another function of gay parades is that they are a fantastic reminder to everyone (straight and gay) that there's a huge number of us, and we come in all shapes, sizes, ethnicities, every conceivable variation.
A third function is that just being present at a gay parade can empower gay people to come out.
I'm glad we have Mardi Gras, and all the gay parades. Pity about Chiang Mai, a lovely city that deserves better.
"Perhaps this means that I must still battle my own gay shame, and yet perhaps this also means that I am not ashamed to admit that this is a battle I still struggle with," Oh deary me! Such an eloquently written article (as usual), but I am so sad for you. You'd think that by now, you have lived life to the full, got over the fact that you are gay, and don't give a damn what others may think or say. Gay shame? come on now, put it away, and get on with life as a proudly gay individual whom God created in God's own image. You are a beautifull person, and unique individual. Lets not talk further about shame, but have a positive attitude toward yourself sexuality and your entire very being.
Big hugs
Shane Andersen
MCC Sydney
www.mccsydney.org
shanekandersen@gmail.com
We all should encourage our gay friends to join in gay activities and form communities.
"Being with" is very easy to do and by doing this, we support each other and establish our presence in the world. Together we can create a pleasant creative, artistic and healthy gay culture, not just partying and sex.
i am gay from indonesia, it looks disgusting.
maybe that's why straight people thinks that we are sex maniac or horrible creature??
However, to me the point of pride parades is to gain acceptance from the broader community. It's a very complex and difficult issue, isn't it? I believe this will only be achieved when gays and lesbians are seen to be an integral part of society--not something "other". That is to say, when non-gays realise that we are their neighbours, that we are their doctors, lawyers, teachers, bus drivers, and so on, that we are not really so "different" from them; that we share the same wants and needs for love, partnership, family, community. This does NOT mean being closeted or hiding ourselves, nor does it mean changing who we are as individuals. But, it does mean that Mr and Mrs Average watching a thirty-second clip of a pride parade on TV will invariably see the most sensational bit and this will reinforce the misconception that we are freaks. We are more than our sexual orientation. Pride parades as a venue for exhibitionism do not make that statement.
I can understand if such restriction happened in stone ages, where people were basically unrully and acted based on lust, wanting to mate.
This is 2009. We are men't to be wiser and smarter. Disconstruct the false and foolish dogmatic views.
Unfortunately it has been the propaganda of narrow minded authorities to closet sexuality in any means.
Well there are; that is what Mardi Gras parades traditionally are, and they seem to take place mainly in macho, sexually repressed cultures as a sort of safety valve, pre-dating gay pride by a long chalk. Latin America? New Orleans? There you will see heterosexual men and women wearing giant dildos, enormous fake boobs, whatever, publicly letting go of all their inhibitions for one day. Macho straight men love to put on a dress or be outrageous and let go for one day. The parade gives them a legitimate, socially acceptable (in their culture) space to do that.
The interesting thing is that in Sydney, Gay Pride has appropriated the name and timing of Mardi Gras. I've never seen it, so I don't know to what extent it includes straight people. But to be true Mardi Gras it should be for everyone.
Pride seems to have evolved in some places from protest and visibility, to this more general letting go of inhibitions for a day. These are two distinct types of event really, and maybe that's why disagreement arises.
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http://www.flickr.com/photos/cruzalmeida/3308489254
If If the link doesn't work it's at flickr.com/photos/cruzalmeida/3308489254/
I have absolutely no interest in watched boozed-up and stripped-down people acting with gay abandon - if you'll excuse the term - whether in a hereto or homosexual context. Is THAT what being an adult is about? Is that the best way to express an interest, or to say: "Hey, I've as much right to do as I like as the next guy"?
I'm not someone to start sniffing haughtily at the mere sight of an exposed ankle. However. Nor yet am I involved in some race to the bottom of human culture and expression - when I see people acting badly, like idiots, there's no automatic right to go, say or think: "Oh, but he's/they gay - so, that's okay then!" Nuh-uh!
The marches or gatherings that I go to are more socially or politically orientated than just an excuse to party, which is all Pride/Mardi Gras is, at heart. I'd rather march with 100,000 people protesting against Government cuts to education and pension services - just as I did last Saturday, here in Dublin - than show up to join 10,000 of 'my' people, or anyone else, that are drinking, roaring, shouting, waiting to get wasted or laid or both, which has all I've ever seen of such gatherings.
There's no excuse for boorish behaviour, and that's all that Pride seems to be to ME (and probably many others) - a celebration of excess, that reinforces negative seperatist cliches of what gay people 'are', rather than creating any integration with the wider community, and showing that gay people really ARE as normal and average as the greater majority.
I mean, where are the [Local area] gay Chamber of Commerce groups? Where are the gay groups seeking to help children from Chernobyl? Where are the gay groups seeking to close Guantanemo Bay? Where are the gay groups protesting against the gradual erosion of civil liberties? Where are the gay groups supporting cancer research? Where are the gay groups involved in fundraising for local schools? Where are the gay groups trying to fundraise for dialysis machines? I want to see groups such as that, creating real, lasting involvement with the community, rather than just focusing energy on - of all things - a parade and a party! And when the party's over, the hangover's lifted, then what? What, exactly has or does Pride achieve, wherever it's held?
What happens for the rest of the year - gay groups/people can just shut the hell up and stay quietly in the background, because they've/we've HAD 'our' day? Is that the deal here? One fabulous day when you can be glad to be gay - and that's it?
Pride? Well, I'm not proud of it all, at all... Bah humbug! I'll say no more; let's agree to differ, as Pride has always been, and remains, a deeply divisive issue in the community...
Bai Fei Le!
With all the good points made in the earlier part of the article then it comes crashing to a halt when the writer himself has 'gay shame'. Then what is the point of attending a once a year festival to celebrate 'the pride of having a different sexual orientation'? Does that mean the shame 'disappears' only for the week/duration of the festival?
Doesn't this indicate that deep down inside that he (and I can safely say) and all of us are longing for long term acceptance into society? Most importantly acceptance from our own community, family, and friends? Granted, homophobia is rampant in non metropolitan parts of countries around the world. Even in cities themselves, gay people still face discrimination.
Well maybe that is why the Festivals are held; so that everyone has a day to be free 'to be'. After all the glitter and booze is swept away into the garbage bin the next morning, its back to 'normal' day. That is how rooted the 'shame' is within ourselves.
Gay pride parades have deteriorated to little more than spectacle where no one looks at one another. We're simply whistling and shouting at each other.
I was "detained" but not arrested at the original Stone Wall Riot in New York City in 1969. A mere child of course :)
Since then, all over the world, the Gay Pride or whatever the local terms are, appropriate to the culture have evolved, grown, and gotten better, just as we all have.
Nevertheless, what was that original Stone Wall riot about?
1. Fighting back against police brutality and discrimination.
2. Showing the police that we can not be abused and pushed around.
3. Asserting our equal human rights as gay people.
4. Risking our own injury, and maybe even death (who knows?) to fight back against the police and society for thousands of years of discrimination, brutality, and prejudice.
5. It's identity with not just protesting prejudice and brutality against us because we are gay but also because it's wrong to discriminate against any social or ethnic or racial group.
6. A lot of the people who took part in the Stonewall Riot were Hispanic, Black and probably some Asians as well, besides white. And the leaders of the most fierce rioting as I recall were in fact transgenders, who were angy, angry.
Other ethnic groups joined in the two days of riots also, straights or bi s, it was a joint venture. Some solidarity.
5. Being proud, assertive, and confrontational to tell the world and it's societies and cultures that we are full humans!
I was a bit scared that night after the police had let me go out of the Stone Wall Inn out on to the street. The rioting was ferocious and angry and the police had guns and were known to use them and beat us up. That was common.
I stayed on for not too long, maybe half an hour, because it got really scary and was heading toward anarchy and I had been around other riots to know, that very fast, crazy things can happen and you can be shot. I went home.
So there is a story to read. Maybe I am wrong or half right?
There was no SHAME at the Stonewall Riot except the shame of a power structure and society that discriminates and brutalizes gay people, anywhere in the world now.
One view. Peace.
True indeed !
Shall we SHOW OUR PLIGHT for Equal Rights and Respect by showing
our UNDERWEAR and THONGS in front of the public or making out wildly on the streets ?
I can't imagine if our STRAIGHT friends parading on streets wearing just UNDERWEAR, BRAS and making out like that ..............
The children are watching, the public are watching..........
NO WONDER many still consider US as GAYS
as IMMORAL PERVERTS, who love exhibitionism in the public.
Time for change folks!
What about the naked models used in advertising?
Brutal words used in politics and the media in general. Aren't those attention grabs?"
They use sex to sell.
Point is what are we selling by "Parading in undies, wearing lucrative costumes, kissing and showing loving behaviour"??
1. Are we using SEX to sell ACCEPTANCE??
2. To sell promiscuous behaviour to other gays ??
3. To prostitute oneself by wearing scantily in parades ??
4. To educate the general public on the negative aspects of being gay ??
All seem not right at all …..
Lets be realistic, no one pays attention to people who parade in undies. It's a freak show. Think a resourcefull activist will not use this method to fight " discriminatory laws ".
Now, this would seem like a very obvious thing to do, but it is equally obvious that it is rarely being done.
We love to protest, "Hey, gay people are as 'normal' as anyone else". So, why is it that we don't SHOW that in our parades, by actually LOOKING like normal people? Why should being gay have to ONLY mean being naked? Why is that the ONLY message we are sending out?
The message emitted from this naked bunch pictured above is definitely NOT one of "we are as "normal" as any of you".
By exhibiting themselves like this, these people are drawing people's attention to only their bodies, and away from their minds, their thinking, their personalities,their humanness, their message. There is a commodification here, an objectification, like the one women's groups have long been protesting against. It seems the gay community is engaged in "objectifying" itself while talking ad nauseam about "being normal". Their actions contradict their words.
Think about it. What are the spectators thinking and doing? They are running their eyes up and down the naked bodies, scrutinising their tiny underwear, inspecting the bulges in the underwear, wondering about the size of their endowments beneath, comparing the different sizes on display, wondering what these guys do in bed, wondering if some of them would take off their underwear any moment, wondering if some of them have both male and female genitals, wondering what it would be like to have sex with them, and so on. Just like inspecting farm animals at the Easter show, and hoping to get to see one of them try to hump another. Tell me, which spectator would view these naked guys as "normal people"? Who is even listening to these naked guys -- assuming they are actually trying to say something meaningful?
I've often questioned the whole logic of the very word "pride", and continue to do so. I believe that this word is at the root of all our troubles, and needs to be given an ignominious send-off from our vocabulary. Perhaps it had significance at some earlier point in history, to counter the shame that was associated with being gay. Perhaps. But I think that not only has it lost any relevance it might have had, but it is actually proving counter productive to the gay cause.
You CANNOT be "proud to be gay". It is as meaningless as saying "I am proud of gravity", "I am proud that it is raining today", etc.
You had NOTHING to do with producing gravity or making it rain, did you? Did you make yourself gay? So, what was it you ACCOMPLISHED that makes you proud? Are you saying that you made a CHOICE to be gay? Is that what you are proud of?
No?
So, if I point at a car passing by and say, "I am proud that that car is taking a right turn at that intersection", would it make any sense to you?
No?
So, how much sense do you think your "proud to be gay" slogan makes to others?
Do you say, "Oh, it is not for others, it is for ourselves?"
But if that's the case, why are you thrusting it into other people's faces all the time?
Think about the confusion you create for the undecided -- the ones who aren't sure whether to hate you or accept you. On the one hand you tell them, "I was born gay. I didn't choose to be so."
Immediately after that, you tell them, "I am proud to be gay". Meaning what -- that you chose to be one? But if you didn't choose it, what are you "proud" of? "Sorry man, but that sounds terribly queer. Is that why they call you guys queer? hahahaha."
The only thing that mindless terms like "proud to be gay" and "gay pride" achieve is make straight people believe that you actually made a choice to be gay and indulge in bestial acts day and night. Well, maybe not everyone believes this to be the case, but people do use the ammunition we provide them to further their own religious agendas by painting the gay community as the "devil's spawn" that actually boasts about its own depravity through its "Pride".
And, when you combine those terms with a bunch of guys parading naked through the streets making animal noises, you're communicating the message, "Hey, what are the rest of you waiting for? Come, join us in our glorious lifestyles of eternal hedonism and debauchery. You would be proud too."
To me, the parade picture above has a very strong "What are you waiting for" look. It's EXACTLY like those pictures we see of naked, buxom, nubile girls advertising exotic tourist destinations: "Hey, what are you waiting for? We're right here waiting for you."
It does give the impression that we are trying to "recruit" more people into our fold. It does look like we are trying to "sell" our lifestyles; to encourage those Thais to go kathoey or whatever.
But maybe parade organisers don't really want gay people to get accepted as normal. I was reading the other day about this fear: that once gay people were regarded as normal, gay parades could lose their attraction. These organisers would then find themselves out of work. So, they need to perpetuate the situation in order to survive -- just as doctors need diseases in order to survive. This would explain very well why parades continue to be little more than stupid and mindless exhibitions of naked bodies and inflated rubber genitalia. There's gold in them thar queer folk.
Yet, as an authentic and shameless homosexual who sees no need whatsoever to apologize to straight folks for being fabulously different, I am quite dumbfounded by some of the prudish old-aunty remarks in this forum. Some of you guys need both a shot of testosterone and a reality check.
Gay parades are an exuberant and necessary celebration of everything that makes us special. Our sexuality, our physicality, our creativity, our challenge to old worn-out cultural and religious beliefs, our excesses, our tolerance. Sure sure, some of you guys want us to be as ordinary as possible, to "achieve" acceptance through invisibility and, oh no, normality. Well, folks, I got news for you. We ARE different. We're queer and we're fabulous. And in our struggle to be free we not only make ourselves proud and authentic human beings but, perhaps more importantly, we change and better the societies in which we live. You can stay home and knit or tend your orchids and your shame if you want but me, I'm going out to celebrate. (Note to gymhotbod: in my undies! or less!)
And what celebrations there are! 2,000,000 at the Sao Paulo gay pride parade. 1,250,000 in NYC, 1,000,000 in Toronto. 1,000,000 in SF. 750,000 in Paris. I guess I won't be alone! :)
It's the drugs. Eyes dilated ... sunlight becomes a demon. Drugs doing wonders ... the boldness.
And then, the next day - do nothing. Tell yourself: "Well, I went to Pride; I stood up for myself; I showed Them!" Fine. And then what? When you've rolled through the street, making as much noise as possible on one single day, with people wildly cavorting and revelling, what exactly do you DO for the rest of the year to create pride? How do you nurture what's been planted on that one day? What do you do for the gay community on any other day of the year? Hell, what do you do for THE community, at any other time? Or do you simply say, as I've heard too many times, 'Oh, no, I don't get involved with any other issue, because I'm gay, and that's enough for me to focus on, because I'm gay...' Okay. Right. Fine. (Rolls up sleeves, and takes a deep breath.)
Again, I'm sick to the back teeth of being sneered at by people who go to Pride, who always assume that A) I'm ashamed of who or what I am [Wrong]; B) I'm letting 'our community' down by not coming along and participating [Wrong again]; and C) it's somehow my Duty to come along and act like an oaf in public [oh, so, so wrong again].
As I said to someone privately here who messaged me, Pride IS very important, and I fully understand and appreciate what it - and here's a key word - CAN stand for. Our battles are not yet won; our old enemies of prejudice and intolerance are still out there, rallying against us, and this is a war that has generations left to fight. Generations! It's very easy to be dismissive of Pride in The West, where most major skirmishes have been won in our favour, whereas in many parts of the world open homophobia is expected by society and, indeed, in many places gay men and women can still be murdered and executed by The State. As such, the rallying call of Pride, to give people courage and support, is very important, and I fully respect that noble bedrock of what Pride is, especially far from Western ideals and notions of brotherly equality, fraternity and acceptance. In many corners of the world, people cannot be who they naturally are, without the fear or prison or worse, and so the notion of Pride - in oneself, in others - is so important. Yes, believe me, I Get it.
But Pride in many places, and particularly in the West - as has been made explicitly clear here - is taken as a time JUST to paaaartttyyyyyyyyyy - to abandon the usual rules that society runs by, and just behave stupidly. If I saw heterosexual people behaving like many gay guys do at Pride (and, yes, I've been to a few), I'd be pretty disgusted. Regardless of how I live my life, what may be seen on my profile(s), and what I may do in private, that kind of public drunken, boorish, hedonistic, in-your-face behaviour is NOT how I was brought up, and not the kind of person I want to be, or am.
So, call me a prude, accuse me of being an 'orchid-tender', sneer at my old-fashioned values of manners, respect, and my wholly antiquated notions of public decency that doesn't want to see people of any sexuality or purpose all but rutting in the gutter to 'further a cause', and I'll fully accept AND even support Your right to go to Pride and participate.
But Pride - at least, the Prides that I've seen - is not for ME! :-P
So... when there's Pride... I must celebrate, and be fabulous for a day, and party... I must stop trying to 'blend in' with the greater, heterosexual community, and mark out that I am 'different' to them (which is fuel for the fire of a totally different story about what right-wing groups and religious bigots would say, but I'm not opening That can of worms in this thread)...
In other words, you're saying... I should Stop 'conforming' with the heterosexual community... and Start conforming with the homosexual one?! With Us, or Against Us, huh? One Of Us, or One Of Them?
Perhaps non-homosexual conformists - like ME - can be accused of sexuality-treason; of being fifth-columnists, secretly at work within the gay community to sow seeds of dissent and disarray! Perhaps by my clear unwillingness to conform, be quiet, and meekly blend in with SOME elements of the gay community, I'm actually indicating that I may be, may be... a secret... het... heter... heterosexual?!
Fine. Whoever's drawing up The List of names to eject from The Homosexual Party for not conforming to internal party expectations, and refusing to follow party politics and procedures on how one can, or should, behave 'as a gay' - put me first on the list. Banish me from The Party! Kick me out of 'our' community, with cries of "Sexuality traitor!" and "Hear, hear!" ringing behind me!
But I'll tell you this much - I'd wear any such mark with pride, as I won't let anyone - Anyone - whether Gay or Straight, tell me to conform to what They expect of me, or tell me how I 'should' act.
And that's what MY Pride is...
At age of 28, the human body starts shutting down system by system if you are not careful :).
The wonder of life .... birth, youth, old age ... death :). No one will be spared :) But why some drop dead so early, in public and in their undies??? Hmmmm ... queer and fabulous??? Gorgeous but dead.
Checkout the emergency rooms during these parades.
I'll share a personal experience that I have in regards to Pride. In Sydney where I once studied many moons ago, I attended my first Pride (called Mardi Gras there) in 2004.
It is a huge enormous party of men, women, gay, lesbian, old, young, tall, thin, fat, muscular. It was just like any other street party, music, glitter, booze, merry making and then...public making out mind you, and some men dressed like half naked cherubs with angel wings walked pass by me and pinched and groped my bum whilst calling me vulgar names like "Hey, yellow fellow, wiggly arse there".
I've never been felt up before and I really withdrew immediately from the scene feeling violated. There I was in a parade to celebrate "Pride" and then I got my modesty outraged. I ran from Oxford Street towards the bus stops on George Street to head home.
The next year's Pride I went with some close friends. Although no violation took place, the name calling and whistling is still there. We ignored it largely and left when the tropical storm began to pelt heavily on the parade. Still, the experience from the first Pride still haunts me and I was constantly watching my back literally.
Doing some research recently and discovering that the Pride in the beginning is as what commenter MichealAsia mentioned and then comparing it to the current Pride celebrations now. It has lost its meaning and its just another exhibitionism party for hedonists. Disappointment. And to all those 'all out to party' in gay (pun intended) abandon, think about the following days to come when you're old and aunty trying to relive your hedonistic ways. Conservative I may be, but i'd rather be safe than sorry when I celebrate Pride.
"In Chiang Mai, gay activist Teerarojanapong's argument was that a highly publicised Pride festival in Chiang Mai would "encourage" young people to be kathoey (a Thai word that colloquially is used to refer to male-to-female transgender or cross-dressing individuals), and would demean the traditional life of supposed discretion and sexual conservatism in Chiang Mai. "
This is the the most silly thing I ever read about Chiang Mai. Walk down any street if you can and not run into at least 300 transgenders Chaing Mai residents per sq. meter. Walk around any high school or observe young people in Chiang Mai too, roughly 30% are already gay or trans on a slow day!
Re the sexual conservatism of Chiang Mai, ohhh please... why does virtually every Thai man want to go to Chiang Mai for the past 900 years? to get laid. not for the temples baby.
Sexual conservatism in Chiang Mai? Where would that be?
The only thing I would urge is that visitors, gay men or women, to Chieng Mai respect the local culture and don't make it any more of a commercial sex capital any more than heterosexuals have done to Chiang Mai for the past 100 years.
I respect the Lanna culture of what is now called Chiang Mai very much. It was only incorporated into the modern Thai state (Siamese Empire) in the early 1900's.
I wish there were more real human contact, eye contact and community care for each other beyond one day of drugfucked Nazi rally for the body fascists. And if you could see the mountain of rubbish left behind on Oxford Street, ,makes you wonder how many gays care for the environment in this place. I think it is time we all got over it, stopped using events as substitutes and distractions for finding solutions to real life problems.
I would be glad to see the whole thing go up in smoke and never come back, in exchange for a better public transport service all year round.
Sydney is not a "shithole"as you so eloquently put it. If so in what respect ? If you are referring to being trapped in careers/commitments/mortgages, isnt every city in every country. Those aspects of life are a choice, not unique to Sydney. Drug taking is a choice also not unique to Sydney.
The mountains of rubbish left after the Mardis Gras parade is left by all the specatators of the parade ( overwhelming majority are staright people ) and after the parade, the cleaners come in and the streets are perfectly clean with a couple of hours. Hardly an environmental disaster.
Although I am not pro these events OR anti these events I smell some bitter propaganda when it comes across my way.
Bottom line is, if living in Sydney and its lifestyle is a "shithole" for YOU then the beauty of living in a democratic country such as Australia, is that YOU can change it. You can also choose to stay away from parade events.
I suggest you try.
I guess THE PARADE is originated from the western countries where NAKED on the street is widely acceptable. ANd nobody cares about it.
But, in Asian countries...
Wearing only underwear dancing on the street is terrible.
Gay might proud in their six pack. So, they show it around the street. But, did they think about their culture, andl mind of social.
Be proud is not mean to show off .... calvin klein tag on his underwear.
It is a contrast of culture and misunderstanding in "Being Proud".
Proud in body is not proud to be gay.
It doesn't help gay to look better among the world.
Only tantalizing FUN, that keeps gay naked on the street.
If the GAY PRIDE don't really need more man to choose to be gay. GAY PRIDE don't need to promote "How to BE GAY" and "How Is GAY Looks Like on the Street" to the whole social.
i like to be a part of mardi gras festival;
frankly i am very much of being a part of our society...... cheer up my dear homosexual!
Gay men are also men.....again SEX driven....think with their dick head....like scanty clad men etc....
Fight for equal rights??? Look people in this world will always discriminate base on race age gender and religion and sexual preferance. In Malaysia, there are a good amount of Malay gyas who go halal....meaning they like their own race. In Singapore....Chinese rules. I know....they promote mandarin speaking and have foreigners speak good Mandarin yet they glorify bad English.
YET, MOST OF US LIVE NORMAL LIFE.. WHY THESE GAYS DESTROY THE LIVES OF NORMAL GAYS.??? STUPID
Just as I celebrate being French on 14 Juillet/ Bastille Day, I celebrate being gay on gay pride day. An in-yer-face, glad-to-be-alive, lusty, joyous, and playful celebration of everything that it means to be gay. And, Messieurs Collets-Montés, that includes s-e-x (because we are, after all, homoSEXUALS). And letting go for a few precious, mindless and glorious hours of all those inhibitions, social conventions and inherited "moral" values imposed on us. And psst to all you constipated types, it's F-U-N.
Some of you prissy guys don't seem to realize that a generation ago social values were just as conservative in most Western countries as they are now in Asia. 20 or 30 years ago gay parades outraged the general public. Yet, the challenge to prevailing notions of "decency" is exactly what was needed to change and liberalize society. Paradoxically, our outrageousness-- and our growing visibility and assertiveness-- helped promote our acceptance. Maybe the same can happen in Asia. Gay parades, in presenting the wide spectrum of gay lifestyles, expose our differences as well as our similarities to the straight public. Sure, sure there are lots of muscle marys gyrating in their Calvins and sequined drag queens twirling batons and blowing kisses from big red lips but there are also contingents of gay bankers in suits, gay families with children, gay firemen, gay volunteers working with Médecins sans Frontières/ Doctors without Borders, gay teachers, gay social workers, gay politicians, etc all marching in a proud demonstration of our fabulousness and our ordinariness. Since more than half the spectators at any gay parade in Europe and North America are straight, it seems to be a message that is well received and enjoyed. Like the ever sensible SteveUK (post #57), I have never witnessed the outrageous drunken or druggy behaviour that so many guys in this forum complain about. Lots of playfulness, certainly. But sex-crazed drunks, never.
Dodge the hard questions and vilify me instead, that is the typical Aussie response to anything of substance. Enjoy your Mardi Gras and don't split your costume from sheer pride.
1) Why are there so many straight ppl sneering & oogling @ the participants instead of celebrating with us? Brazil's famous annual Rio de Janeiro carnival has naked men & bare-breasted women parading the streets yet people can still have fun & be respectful @ the same time.
2) Where are the lesbians? The few I managed to see ...erm, they're nt my type. i also don't like the straight girls who are only here to drool @ naked gay boys...them & their boyfriends- unbelivably rude & low-life.
There are a lot of bitter people posting on here. I'd like to ask these wowsers, would you rather live in a country where freedom of expression in whatever form (ie) Pride/mardis Gras events are tolerated and even encouraged ( as in Sydney where its calimed by Government that it generates millions for the economy ) or in a country that would ban it, quash the parade as if it was an uprising, and punish those taking part.
I personally dont like large sporting events in Sydney , and I stay away from the city area on NYE, and was a bit annoyed when world Youth Day was here last year, but hey, we have no right to dictate to others about what they love to do, worship, and enagage in.
When I go Mardis Gras in Sydney, I see how much the specatators enjoy it Mothers, Fathers, kids, grannies, and tourists from many different countries.
As I wrote previously, if you dont like that type of event DONT go, pure and simple.
Live and let live, and dont rain on someones else's parade.
1. Brazil's famous annual Rio de Janeiro carnival is a competition between the Samba Schools. It is a competition. They represent their schools and prepare the event all year round. That is why even with naked men & bare-breasted women parading the streets, people can still have fun & be respectful @ the same time. The gay parades are sadly just a trip to the butchers'.
2. Lesbians are more down to earth as compared with gays (MSM). Gays (MSM) normally have less self respect as compared with lesbians. I know of many Lesbian couples who age together very gracefully. Gays (MSM) is exactly the opposite. Lifelong partners are a minority ( not to include sugar daddies with their kept boys. That is just a "marriage" of convenience. ) That is why you do not see so many of lesbians in such parades.
If you are really gay, I have to wonder what is your motive in spreading misinformation, other than your hatred of Fridae and it's CEO, which you make no secret of.
re post #70 girlongirl... hey girl, just hop on a plane to SF at the end of june.... zillions of lesbians (and 10% of them are, gasp, asians)... they take over the city with their own march the night before gay pride day with such exuberance and joy that even all the prissy guys in this forum might be infected with a certain sense of good will (despite the sight of bare breasts here and there)
re post #71 jupiter101... right on, bro! and thanks for taking on on poor old ferribal head on
re post #73 gymhotbod.... groan.... but at least you inspire me to remember a poem by t.s. eliot: "the voice returns like the insistent out-of-tune of a broken violin on an august afternoon"... and by the way, the Rio carnival (often billed as the world's largest dance party with 1,000,000 spectators and participants) is half the size of the Sao Paulo gay parade (2 million!)....of course living in singatopia as u do, such little tidbits of information can only be found lying on the floor of the censor's office
re post #72 lagunabro.... ditto (groan)
re post #74 steveuk... bravo! :)
Steveuk, do specify misinformations that I spread. I am totally baffled.
I've read & participated in forums fr Gay.com or Gaydar but members' contribution's are so much more knowledgable & elegant, you come away with the feeling that you LEARNT something new & not face recycled crap you hear a zillionth time abt gay people fr the basement of the common masses. Could it be due to better screening of their members? *puzzles* Maybe the management of Fridae should try that, too? ;))
Jupiter 101- Yr middle name must be Classy. :)
Love it-embrace it, love-to-hate-it, leave it alone- indeed that's basic manners I believe we are all brought up with.
Anyway, Re: pheramones Salut à toi! ;))
I've been to parades in SF & Sydney but...they failed to impress me :p Perhaps I should try Gay Pride Paree... yr description totally hit spot-on what I've seen on video... it's pure joie-de-vivre!!! Too bad I missed it when I was last in France -
it was March 2006 & the parade's in July,
n'est-ce pas?
I'm sure you will also agree that without the the 'rebel-rousers' it wouldnt be quite the same here. ;)
But seriously, everybody's experience of these parades/events are relative to where they are in their life. As the writer of the article Shinen Wong wrote that his first Pride parade was a cathartic expererience. To me coming out as a young gay man, Mardis Gras parade in Sydney was the most exciting experience I had to date in terms of experiencing gay cohesion. Its relative to what has been experienced prior.
These days, I dont go to the gay parades often, as I dont like crowds, but recently I went to the gay and lesbian Mardis Gras and had a wonderful experience, and that was mainly from seeing the specataors of all walks of life revelling in the atmosphere, and truly enjoying themselves, and cheering the marchers on. Its is an indication that non-gay people do support, enjoy, and often love to celebrate with us. They are comfortable with the display of celebration that some of our gay brothers and sisters choose to participate in.
I would like to ask the detractors, and opponents who have written here of their first experience of a gay parade ( Pride/mardis Gras/party). Were they really so embarrassed, ashamed of, or hated the experience so much that they have become so hardened ? Or maybe it is they have just 'moved on' and it no longer holds the excitement that they once experienced, and that Wong writes about ?
If so, look back, remember, how it was to experience how it was to be among those who celebrated and accepted them.
Put yoursleves into the shoes of those who have never experienced it before, OR are still young at heart. Put yourselves in the shoes of those who are not of our 'kind' but celebrate with us, and support our right to express, love, and celebrate, in whatever way we wish, without fear.
I stop going to the parades after I witness so many times of disagreeable behaviours at circuit parties and parades. Behaviours which in the end results in the downfall of many in their primes.
There is a very bad joke that during Mardi Gra in Sydney, animals in trauma suffer the most during that period as there will be a shortage of you know what. Well it is a very bad joke but then it reflects a very serious underlying issue.
Looks like original post #73 expectedly "vanished" as a cover up and then was used to needle steveuk in post #75...geez, how low can this snake go? But again, what can u expect from this loser with a history of eating/spitting trash day in/out. This forum seems to be the ONLY place this loser can create many different profiles and keep itself entertained from its lonely existence. Boring. I have been saying this all along; best way to ignore this messed up kampong tart is DUN feed the snake. I'll bet it will now say it was once was a snake too first hand in a gay parade but stopped participating cos it didin't like being naked after shedding its skin along the way...LOL.
Post 75 Gymmy says: "Gays (MSM) is exactly the opposite. Lifelong partners are a minority"
It's a bit off topic, but this comment is totally contrary to my own personal experience, though Pherry might agree with you on this point. His experience is different to mine, but he and girlongirl are the first gay people I've encountered that don't ever want to settle down with a partner; it's a very existential approach and I respect that.
But my experience (of UK and USA), as I've mentioned before, is that the vast majority of gay people I've known since the first openly gay couple I met when I was 18 (and who are still together a zillion years later) are in long term relationships. This includes the generation younger than my partner and me too. Some people may kiss a lot of frogs before they meet Prince(ss) Charming, but once they do they get a home and a dog together. Bliss for some, hell for Pherry and girlongirl; not right or wrong, just different preferences.
From what Singaporeans tell me though, it seems to be more difficult to find/have a relationship there generally, whatever your sexuality, as evidenced by the government "love boats" for graduates. But there are plenty of people with good relationships, so if that's what you really want, you work at it and it happens. Being Singapore, there are people that want to prevent this for gays, and will tell you it's impossible or undesirable, or try to put down happy relationships. Just don't believe them.
We all have a tendency not to notice so much those things that don't fit in with our beliefs, and to notice more those things that do. So if you have a belief that gay relationships don't last, you will notice every time a break up happens as confirming your belief, but ignore when the same thing happens to straights, or doesn't happen at all. You may also create that in your own life as a self-fulfilling prophecy. If you change that belief, you'll notice more evidence in support of such relationships, and it's more likely to happen to you.
Anyway, enough of the agony aunt stuff, I am way off topic.
Also off topic as well as I share your sentiments on the quote "Gays (MSM) is exactly the opposite. Lifelong partners are a minority""
I've known people in my life who don't choose to settle down. - gosh even in the gay world, the problems that hetero's have we experience them too!!-
Instead, they wander around from partner to partner after 2 - 3 years with them. Tossing them around like chewing gum.
It gets even more worse for those involve in casual sex. 15 minutes and they want their next shag. Its like 'partner hopping is in while commitment is oh so last season'.
Read Carefully . Somebody else deleted their posting.
There is, I think, no proven road to happiness. Long-time companionship/ partnership might work for some. Serial passion might work for others. Love might not even be a part of the successful equation for a few. We will only know if we have chosen wisely when we look back in 40 or 50 years and can say "damn, life has been sooooo good". In the meantime, you moralizing tut-tutting prissy types, please refrain from imposing your beliefs, old aunty condemnations, schoolgirlish dreams, fixed ideas or ridiculous moral certainties on others ok? Your own peculiar inadequacies and insecurities as homosexuals and as human beings are not sufficient bases for making judgments of how things are or should be.
I agree with that and most of the rest of what you say. I don't agree with your criticism of "schoolgirlish dreams" though: that is a tut-tutting judgement in itself. People have their dreams, it's not for us to judge them. Some people act on them, some just leave them as dreams. But if they don't act, they'll never know what might have happened.
and laoshiyan, pls don't blame the quite excellent shinen for the heat...in my experience, the most vicious discussion by far was the news forum (i..e. not Shinen essay) about the Singapore gay bashers
You keep insisting that there are no such things, or have not seen it. I do find it very strange as I have been to a fair share of parades, Sydney, San Francisco, Sao Paulo and Rio de Janeiro. The observations are quite different and startling. It is not wrong to have standards of behaviours, for that is the core human existence. Without this code of conduct, human as a specie would not have advanced so far.
Using "Singapore Gay Bashers" only divides us further as most here who voice out their displeasures are not against gay events, but specifically protesting against certain behavioural aspects at such public events as afterall, it is a gay public event and a showcase of what we are celebrating as gays.
As Shinen would say: THANX AND KEEP RIGHT ON READING!
The volume and density of your own perorations lead one to believe you are "auditioning" for a similar spot on fridae. Me, I got bigger fish to fry!
Many-though nt all of course- joe-averages ARE joe-homophobes, its undeniable. That's exactly what Oscar Wilde was raging against a century ago- the philistinism of the common public.
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